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rickyb
When I encounter an icy hill in my real 4X4 (not all wheel drive) I always shift to 2wd and let the rear tires control the speed. If you try to steer to much on ice in 4wd you will spin around because the tires are turning at different speeds. As a matter of fact, I usually drive in 2wd unless I am starting off or starting to spin while climbing a hill.
ed11563
When I was young and cars were rear wheel drive, there were many times I put the car in neutral (or held down the clutch) so the back wheels would stop pushing in slippery roads. At low speeds or while stopping, the back wheels would slide to the side otherwise. If he's going down that hill at 4 mph and wants to be able to stop at the bottom, it might be better to trust the brakes, especially if he has anti-lock brakes.
Josey276
The only time I have found it OK to put a rear wheel drive vehicle in neutral is coming to a stop sign on level ground on ice or snow. The rear wheels keep pushing the vehicle and as the brakes are applied the front tires start sliding. If you put it in neutral the car stops faster because it is not being forced to keep going.
draggin
i spend a lot of time on hills. the next town over is named Hill.most of the time slip it to N and use the brakes.this allows me to steer the car when the gears are to low and the front wheels are in a skid.you cant turn if your wheels are locked this holds true for brakes too so let up get straight.i do this in my old bronco also just like Ricky said 2wd or N goin down the hills TOM AND WHATS HIS NAME ARE FROM MASSACHUSETTS AND NO ONE DOWN THERE KNOWS HOW TO DRIVE ANY WAY.your doin good farm boy next time tell the old nag to get out and meet you at the bottom of the hill. john
SgtRobes
Syntactically, I guess the Car Guys are right if we agree with their premise in that going down the hill in neutral and using the brakes equates being out of control… Carol says the vehicle is sliding but probably is just rolling… how long has her husband been doing this?? How many dents are in the vehicle?? How many times has he fallen off the road and crashed into the trees and boulders?? Why is it wrong to let the vehicle creep down the hill in neutral controlled by 4 brakes rather and than the rotating force of driven wheels? If the vehicle has ABS, steering is not compromised. If it's gonna head for the ditch, it will do so irrespective of being in gear or not. Being in neutral does not necessarily mean that it is in chaos and about to crash; being in gear does not necessarily mean it’s in control. If the goal is to get to the bottom of the hill and then go from there, it's possible the gentleman who has been doing this might have the knowledge and ability to determine how he wants to do so. Didn’t Click & Clack just tell someone that the next time the driver passes out on the freeway to shift the vehicle into neutral and gently steer and coast to a stop?
DickM
There are situations where I do see an element of logic in putting the car in neutral when on ice. When not in neutral, the engine causes a braking action which tends to slow the car down. Braking action of course is when the wheels want to go slower than the car is moving. When this happens, friction between the drive tires and the ice will slow the car. But if there is no friction (or at least very little), the wheels will skid. Putting the car in neutral will remove this portion of danger. Friction will still be operating for the car to slow down, but at least you have removed one element that causes skidding. When going down a hill and you want the car to slow down or at least don't want the car to keep going faster and faster, I do agree with Tom and Ray that engine braking should be used. Foot braking is not as gentle as engine braking.
edfix
Sorry, Tom and Ray, but you're absolutely wrong on this one. With rear-wheel drive on ice, when you get very slow, the front wheels lock up while the rear wheels are still turning. At this moment you're out of control. To regain control, you must either disengage the clutch, or take an automatic out of gear, to stop it pushing. Then you can let up on the brake a little, the front wheels start turning again, and you are back in control. It's even worse on a hill, because you have gravity pulling you forward along with the still-turning rear wheels. In front-wheel drive, the situation is somewhat better, because the rear wheels will lock up first. At least, you still have steering control as your rear end skids around. Still, taking the car out of gear allows you to let all four wheels turn as you slowly maneuver. The situation in a 4wd is more complicated, depending on which wheels are the primary drive, what mode you have it in, etc. However, rather than try to analyze it in real time, why not just take it out of gear and use gravity as the motive power to retain control under all circumstances? It's simple and effective.
Mark1740
I agree with edfix on this one. Sorry Tom & Ray. When I was young, I wrecked the front end of my 1970 Mustang while turning from an icy parking lot into a narrow gate. It was very cold and I had just started my car a minute earlier. I lost all control because when I applied my brakes, the front wheels locked up and the rear wheels kept turning. The obvious cause was that the automatic choke was on and the engine RPM was slightly higher. The torque converter transferred the extra power to the rear wheels, and crash. After that, I was always prepared to slip it into neutral whenever I anticipated needing extra control on ice.
ReynardtheFox
My guess that Carol's husband is conditioned to driving tractors in the winter in icy snow conditions hauling hay out for farm animals and such. Most of us know tractors have very low gear ratios. Low gear ratios and snow and ice with a tractor could be treacherous. The tractor could begin moving forward at at faster rate of speed than the drive wheels are turning. This would cause a skidding condition. Skidding wheels always try to lead. I'll bet skidding wheels on a tractor pulling a trailer is a LOT of fun. Now if the tractor is a Farmall that would really be a challenge. So my guess many a farmer will "freewheel" down hill because it is safer. Given the higher center of gravity of the tractor, freewheeling in a 4x4 is a breeze for this man.
Oldbob
I agree with alot of your commentors. If you have rear wheel drive and an automatic, shifting into neutral allows you to control the car better than leaving the car in gear allowing the rear wheels to turn while the front wheels are braking.
Oldie49
I have owned several vehicles that required shifting to neutral to stop or slow down on ice. Most were older models with rear drive and without anti-lock brakes. Any pressure on the brake pedal would cause the front brakes to start sliding while the back wheels are pushing. Knowing your own vehicle and what works best to keep it in control would have been the best answer.
P944
Wrong, wrong, wrong. An icy hill means traction is limited. Assuming that you would like some sort of steering control going down the hill, which should you choose: 1. Dumb engine braking that will most likely cause those wheels that are connected to the engine to skid. This will be a problem for front wheel drive cars where the front wheels are also expected to steer the car. 2. Smart anti-lock brakes that will individually monitor each wheel for lack of traction and apply brake pressure accordingly to enable some steering control. The only rationale for using engine braking anywhere would be anticipation of (due to overheating) or actual failure of the brake system. I guess if you had a car without anti-lock brakes and had no driving skills, then using engine braking will have an advantage of having you crash sooner, probably at a lower speed, but that's the only benefit of engine breaking that I can think of.
Seed04
I think the critical element is the steepness of the hill. You want to go down the slowest way possible so you maintain control. On a steep hill you will probably be able to maintain better control in gear while the reverse would be true of a not so steep hill (whichever method sends you down the slowest). Lessons learned from many years living at the top of a steep hill in NH. Oh BTW, I usually found mud season to be more challenging road wise for our hill.
McNuts
I think half of your answer is correct. When driving on ice and downhill with a rear wheel drive car it is almost impossible to steer the car. When you touch the brakes the front wheels will stop turning and the rear wheels will continue to drive the car making the car hard to steer. You will slide into a ditch. A front wheel drive car is easier to control while in gear. I have two Jeep Grand Cherokees and have never had to slip them into neutral on ice. I do know that a four wheel drive is easier to move on ice and snow but no easier to stop than a regular drive car.
Doug1951
I don't know about gravel, but on pavement you can sometimes stop faster in neutral rather than drive. In drive you still have power being applied to the wheels unless the brakes are locked. I remember sliding down a steep, icy hill in a rear wheel drive car. I put it into neutral and I stopped. I put it back into drive and it started sliding again. I put it back into neutral and it stopped again. The rear wheels must have been pushing the car just enough to keep it sliding, even though I had the brakes on.
alfa
As a skier out here in the West, I have driven accident-free in icy/snowy conditions in real mountains (and on the steep hills of Seattle when it snows at sea level, which, thank God, doesn't happen very often) for nearly 50 years and I guarantee you that you are making a bad mistake in trying to go down steep, icy hills with your car in gear, at least for traditional 4WD, FWD and RWD vehicles, and especially if they have automatic transmissions. In such vehicles, you always want to go down such hills in neutral, and the steeper and icier the hill is, the more important it is that you do so. When a FWD or RWD car is in gear, the engine will transmit power to the wheels even at idle and on exceptionally steep, icy hills, enough power can be transmitted to cause the drive wheels to break loose and begin skidding. (The same danger exists in 4WD cars - the power transmitted to all four wheels can make the car/truck very difficult to control on steep downhill icy roads.) To go down such hills in these types of cars, you MUST put the car in neutral and gently use the brakes to moderate your speed going down the hill. In this manner, braking force is applied to all wheels equally, reducing the likelihood that one wheel or a set of wheels will lose traction and begin to skid. Obviously, if you do begin to skid, you GENTLY pump the brakes and steer into the skid until control in regained. Having your car in gear going down a steep, icy hill is a sure prescription for disaster and Tom and Ray need to print a correction in their column immediately to retract the very dangerous bad advice they gave. It also does not matter if you have traction devices on your tires - even with traction devices on your tires, it is still safer to go down steep icy hills in neutral. I do not know the physics of AWD cars on steep icy downgrades (I have never driven one in extreme conditions). With computerized drivelines in such cars, it may be best to keep such cars in gear going downgrade but I know I am right as to traditional 4WD, FWD, and RWD cars, as I have extensively driven these types of cars in the extreme winter conditions I describe above.
nameain'tnick
If I'm driving a front wheel drive only vehicle on a steep icy hill, I find that putting the vehicle in neutral and using the emergency brake to gently slow the rear wheels is the most effective way to maintain steering with revolving front wheels................
Skeptic101
I spent my early driving years in West Virginia. I can tell you that creeping down an icy hill in neutral is the only way you can maintain steering control. Surprised you guys didn't know that.
Oldtimer2002
I agree with both of your thoughts. It would be better to have the rear wheels in gear so that the back of the vehicle can be held back by the drivetrain but it would be better to have the front wheels in neutral (disengaged). The free wheeling front wheels then would not be jerked or disturbed from their contact with the pavement by the drivetrain. Thus gentile steering can be done. It is extremely important for the front tires to maintain contact with the pavement to create the side forces neccessary for steering. Once the front tires break traction, all steering ability is lost.
NormInIowa
Oh, dear, a really *BAD* answer that could be dangerous. edfix and others have the right answer. Engine braking is a great thing in the mountains in good traction situations to prevent heat-caused brake fade. In good-traction situations it will do no harm. In lousy traction situations it isn't reliable. The drive wheels are possibly doing what is needed, but more likely are either giving too much acceleration (pushing you at slow speed through that intersection with the non-drive wheels skidding) or too much engine braking (leaving the drive wheels skidding). Modern ABS systems make it even more emphatic: Use the engine to go, use the brakes to stop/slow!
ATedK
Uh; Tom and Ray, your advice is good for a boat, not necessarily for a car. The issue is not about keeping the car in gear, the issue is about keeping control of the car which depends on keeping all four wheels in traction. What one does NOT need when going downhill is any of the wheels trying to push/pull the vehicle. Gravity is very effective and unlike the car's engine, gravity is absolutely dependable and so constant that we can use math and predict gravity's effect. The key here is how many variables are affecting the car's motion. When things get sticky, eliminating variables makes the problem simpler. Take the car out of gear while negotiating icy terrain or hydroplaning simplifies the problems AND eliminates the possibility of locking a wheel. Which is very easy to do in either condition. That last one is the critical issue, keeping the wheels in traction with the ice/ground is what gives one control. Not keeping the car in gear as you advise. Tell you what; it's winter now and you guys are surely taking that traditional Massachusetts ski trip to the north soon. Locate a steep icy (no salt, sand, whatever ice treatment) grade and try the various ways of going downhill. Then let us know what you think works best. Don't be surprised though if a vehicle in gear tends to fishtail, doughnut or over/understeer Question to the "Old gal in Iowa"; just why is this an issue? Seems to me like a reason to nag/berate. Can't you just accept that he has his reasons or is this your way to start your road trips off on the right foot and make for pleasant journeys. As someone else has mentioned, maybe you should walk down the hill more. Actually, I'm surprised he hasn't turned the vehicle over to you and walked down the hill himself.
organ player
With the engine at idle and the transmission in the lowest gear, a vehicle has a minimum forward speed. Trying to go down an icy hill slower than that minimum speed in a two wheel drive vehicle requires braking. The brakes will lock up the undriven axle while the idling engine continues to engage the driven axle. Sliding wheels neither steer nor stop the vehicle. By using neutral for a very slow descent on the icy hill, the brakes can be applied lightly in a continuous manner to maintain an even speed without locking the brakes on either axle. (If the vehicle was a stick shift, the clutch would have to be depressed to keep from "bucking" down the hill... and probably sliding into something.) I've used this technique in severe winter conditions with my automatic transmission, 72 passenger school bus. Other drivers who used low range on the step downgrades complained of sliding while braking. I came down the same hills in neutral without sliding. Fifteen years ago I helped a dozen teachers exit an upper level parking lot by using the neutral technique. The steep exit road emptied onto a main street controlled by a traffic light. The first driver kept the transmission in low. He said it was illegal to drive in neutral. He slid through the red light. The remaining drivers took my advice and had no trouble going down the hill. I use this same technique with my 1997 AWD Subaru Legacy SW on those very steep downgrades.
Alfred Man
I too think it depends on the car. Some cars are rear wheel drive while other are not so this may change the role scenario. I believe the only person who can answer to this question is whoever's been driving a particular car for some time. He knows and understand the machine he have in hands, so I would not worry about driving on neutral on ice. http://actodc-converter.info/ Hope I could be of some help!